• Home
  • Episodes
  • Books for Leaders
  • About Us
    • Our Team
    • Contact Us
  • Our Sponsors
  • Blog
  • Our Newsletter
The Leadership Podcast

The Leadership Podcast

We Study Leaders

April 5, 2023

TLP353: Inclusion Tops Diversity

https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/theleadershippodcast/TLP_353.mp3
Play in New Window Download

Gena Cox, Ph.D. discusses her new book that provides powerful insights for leaders to drive inclusion: “Leading Inclusion: Drive Change Your Employees Can See and Feel.” In this conversation, Gena stresses the value of human relationships, and how organizations have vast opportunities to optimize the human experiences for their employees. Gena reveals how a system that doesn’t embrace inclusion will lose employees who don’t feel included. Listen in for how curiosity can help your team feel even more connected.

Key Takeaways

[2:00] Dr. Cox tells how she is the luckiest person in the world. Her grandmother had a grade school education but was an entrepreneurial wizard. From watching her grandmother grow her neighborhood store, Gena learned the value of the human relationship in terms of getting things done. Gena’s secret is that much of what she talks about comes from observing her grandmother and her customers.

[2:56] When Dr. Cox was growing up, she wanted to be a journalist. She still sees journalists covering things around the world and imagines herself doing that. She supposes that journalists, like others, have a big “why” about how they can make the world better that lets them keep going.

[4:22] Dr. Cox has been trained not to make assertions without evidence to support the assertions. She had known for a long time about the importance of respect. But it wasn’t until the summer of 2020 when she interviewed leaders and surveyed employees about what they think leaders don’t understand about inclusion, black employees said they felt leaders were distancing themselves and avoiding them.

[5:54] When Dr. Cox did the content analysis to see the themes emerging from those comments, she came up with the word “respect.” These comments were all about things where people wanted to be seen, heard, and valued.

[7:07] It is important not to just think about these issues in the present, but to look centuries back. In our country, there are social dynamics that have existed for generations within a community where there are significant power imbalances. These imbalances correlate with race, ethnicity, and socioeconomics. Ignoring those factors can lead to misunderstanding the experience of employees from those places.

[8:21] Dr. Cox wrote one chapter about history at the beginning of her book. It makes a difference if leaders understand the broader context before they try to address specific initiatives or priorities in their organizations because they might miss the mark, otherwise.

[9:19] Dr. Cox works with leaders on inclusion and with individuals to think about how they can be the best that they desire to be. It takes two sides of this equation to tango to get the outcomes that we desire. Dr. Cox shares a case of a client feeling discriminated against in their career progress. Dr. Cox suggested they look for what they could do to get past the barrier and jump the hurdle.

[10:28] Dr. Cox offers three ideas that can help each of us make that difference for ourselves. 1. Have a big “why” for what kind of influence and impact you desire to have. 2. Have a track where you are working on custom master classes. Learn as much as you can that will help you get to your goal. 3. Amplify and brand yourself within our job. Dress and behave for the job you want.

[11:53] If your current job does not allow you to do all that, you might have to do it on a parallel track and keep it moving until you can use what you learn to move forward overall.

[14:06] Dr. Cox thinks there is a lot of misinterpretation and reinterpretation that takes place about leaders like Martin Luther King. Dr. Cox does not talk a lot about what specific people have said. Some people hearing a quote may miss the main idea. Inclusion tops diversity. It’s not just about getting more representation of a particular group. DE&I is really effective leadership of 100% of employees.

[16:38] Dr. Cox talks about effective leadership to create situations where every single person in a team, group, or organization feels that he or she can put in the appropriate efforts and get the expected outcomes. We all have to have a part in making that happen, especially managers.

[17:49] After George Floyd was killed, corporations started offering implicit bias training and hiring Chief Diversity Officers. Those two solutions are just tactics. They need to be added to a strategy that says “Here is what we are solving for.”

[18:34] The most important thing leaders can do to minimize the risk of doing things that are not effective is to start by talking to employees about what is their day-to-day experience. Then they will tell you what you should focus on first.

[19:20] Dr. Cox would like leaders to attach fewer restrictions to the research-based insights, such as the size of the survey group. The research is too new to be buttoned down. Dr. Cox points to the value of qualitative data or the stories that people tell in this area. These stories haven’t been told before so leaders don’t understand the solutions they should implement.

[21:28] Dr. Cox asked about three years ago in a LinkedIn article why, with regard to DE&I, organizations are not utilizing the same strategy and problem-solving techniques that they apply to every other problem. Because of the emotional component, including fear and anxiety, about the topic, leaders are failing to use the same kinds of judgment skills that they might have used for something else.

[22:22] What research have you done? Have you gone to a solution without research or understanding what’s going on so that your actions might work? Are you just throwing a dart at a board and hoping that something will stick? You would never do that if you were implementing a new initiative to support your customers or clients because you would know how high the risk would be.

[23:18] The number one topic on the minds of boards of directors and leaders today, apart from making money, is talent. Under talent is the shortage of talent.  Why is there a shortage of talent? People come up with a variety of explanations. The data Dr. Cox sees is that there is a significant portion of the workforce that feels alienated from their leaders and colleagues and dissatisfied.

[24:31] The latest research says that 50% of Black American employees say that they are thinking about or preparing themselves to leave their current job. There has been more data over the past couple of years because of the pandemic.

[24:55] Dr. Cox asks leaders to think about why there is so much dissatisfaction and whether it is true in their organization. If so, what are the elements in their organization that could be causing it? If not true, what could they learn about it? They’re about to have this problem. What can they do to make it better for employees?

[25:26] This leads to conversations about compensation, speaking up, well-being, mental health, and a variety of issues that should be at the tip of the spear.

[26:31] Rehumanizing the workplace means emphasizing the idea that effective leadership is a pie chart. There’s a piece for task performance and a piece for human performance. All the outcomes organizations are driving to achieve have a human component.

[28:23] Leaders are telling employees to “come back to the office and do it this way,” instead of considering alternative ways to work. There’s a significant gap between what employees desire and what the leaders at the top think employees desire. Rehumanizing the workplace means connecting with the employees.

[32:50] Dr. Cox doesn’t want to believe that with MBA programs costing hundreds of thousands of dollars, organizations aren’t focusing on the human experience. But she believes they are not focusing sufficiently on the human experience. The management of humans has not been balanced with task performance. Dr. Cox wants to do away with the term “soft skills” which are understood to be less than “hard skills.”

[34:40] In an HBR article, “5 Strategies to Infuse D&I into Your Organization,” Dr. Cox writes about mitigating implicit bias at the systemic level. It involves looking at data the organization has about existing patterns within the organization of selection, promotion, career mobility, and visibility of people who have a variety of characteristics.

[36:15] Leaders often think they are leading organizations where things are better than employees might imply that they are. Diversity is not just hiring diverse people. If new employees walk into situations where the environment is not ready for them or receptive to them, they are not going to stay. It’s important for you to figure out, “What does it feel like to work in my organization every day?”

[37:15] Leaders don’t know how their managers behave, day-to-day, or recognize how often those behaviors are having a damaging impact. They don’t put enough emphasis on setting expectations for manager behavior. Leaders need to ask, “Over the years that you have worked for this company, how often have you raised your hand to share an idea and been swatted down?” Optimize the talent you have!

[38:21] If you run an organization with customer-facing people, you want to know how the customer is being treated. You should also want to know what experience your employees are having when they’re interacting with your customers, and not assume that the customer is always right! Inclusion is understanding the day-to-day experience of all the employees that you currently have.

[40:09] Dr. Cox has spent at least 10 years measuring employee experience, advising leaders about how to use data coming out of employee surveys. Respect is a concept that everybody understands. Nobody seems to know what belonging means.

[40:49] Dr. Cox says leaders only need to ask three questions in a survey: Do you feel respected? What is it about your experience that makes you feel respected? Do you feel disrespected? What is it about your experience that makes you feel disrespected? What can we do to enhance your feelings of being respected? A three-question survey is as powerful as a long survey if you know what you’re measuring.

[42:25] Do not overcomplicate the issue. The only outcome that matters in this conversation is what are the experiences that employees are having and are they continuing to have good or bad experiences. What accounts for the variability between good and bad experiences, and what you can do as a leader, knowing and understanding that, to make these things a little more equitable and consistent?

[43:39] Dr. Cox speaks of potential clients who ask her to talk about something and when it gets to a point where it’s uncomfortable, they hadn’t planned for the discomfort, and then rather than move forward through the discomfort, they back away and don’t want to do the thing they should be doing. Dr. Cox is disappointed that some leaders haven’t thought through what they believe.

[44:34] On the plus side, while a lot of the things organizations are doing are destined not to have any impact when it comes to inclusion, more leaders are talking about these issues and are inching forward to a place where leaders can be engaged in trying to understand these issues rather than avoiding them. Dr. Cox is having these conversations more than ever before, even when some people are running away.

[48:01] Dr. Cox’s last thought: “I have a three Cs model. … Curiosity leads to Connection and that Curiosity and Connection are necessary in order to get to Comfort. Comfort, I think, is what we all seek.”

[49:03] Closing quote: Remember, “Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.” — Martin Luther King Jr.


The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company.  

Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country’s warfighters and firefighters.  

Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com


Quotable Quotes

“While I call myself an organizational psychologist because that’s my formal training, the secret that most people don’t know is that a lot of the stuff that I talk about is stuff that I learned in the little … corner store just by… Share on X “When I was growing up, I wanted to be a journalist. I didn’t even think about psychology, And still to this day, when I see journalists covering all kinds of things around the world, I say, ‘Gosh, I could do that. I can do that.’” Share on X “Dr. King taught us that whether we are talking about race, gender, LGBTQ+, ethnicity, neurodiversity, or other ways that humans naturally vary, we can’t sit idly by and wait for others to provide the inclusion we seek. Each of us… Share on X “I talk about effective leadership to create situations where every single person … in an organization, feels that he or she, when they show up, have a chance to be able to put in the effort that is appropriate and get the same… Share on X “Something about the emotion of this issue is causing people to fail to use problem-solving skills that they actually already possess.” Share on X “Are you optimizing the talent that you already have? Most people will say, when I ask ‘What is missing here about why I don’t feel included?’, it tends to fall into the category that ‘I’m not seen, heard, or valued.’” Share on X “By inclusion, I simply mean understanding the day-to-day experience of all the employees that you currently have.” Share on X “I remain eternally optimistic about all of this because of Gen Z and their willingness to speak for us, for everybody, about what that good human experience feels like.” Share on X
Gena Cox

These are the books mentioned in our discussion with Gena

Leading Inclusion: Drive Change Your Employees Can See and Feel

Buy This Book Online
Buy from Amazon
Leading Inclusion: Drive Change Your Employees Can See and Feel
Buy now!
Leading Inclusion: Drive Change Your Employees Can See and Feel

Resources Mentioned

  • Theleadershippodcast.com
  • Sponsored by: Darley.com
  • Rafti Advisors. LLC
  • Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC
  • Gena Cox
  • Gena Cox on LinkedIn
  • Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
  • “5 Strategies to infuse D&I into Your Organization,” HBR

Filed Under: Podcast Tagged With: diversity, Inclusion, leadership

TLP352: A World Where Change is Fun
TLP354: Imposter Syndrome Affects The Best

Related Posts

  • TLP392: The Distracted Leader with Jim and Jan
  • TLP369: Escaping the Busyness Trap with Jim and Jan
  • TLP273: Overcoming Fatal Human Flaws
  • TLP023: Unlocking the True Potential of Your Team
  • TLP013 – Patagonia Crucible - Recipe for Audacious Teams?
iTunes
Spotify
Audible
SoundCloud
iHeartRADIO

Instagram Feed

westudyleaders

#leadership #leadershiptraining #leader #westudyleaders

Success isn't about avoiding failure—it's about Success isn't about avoiding failure—it's about learning from it. 

In this episode, Pippa Begg shares how confidence is built, why failure fuels success, and how great leaders make tough decisions under pressure. Tune in now! https://bit.ly/TLP-458?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #GrowthMindset #Confidence #Motivation #CareerSuccess
Pippa Begg highlights a crucial step for board eff Pippa Begg highlights a crucial step for board effectiveness: start with what you need from your team. The right question can drive clarity and action. 

Dive into the episode for more insights on strategic decision-making! https://bit.ly/TLP-458?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #Boardroom #Strategy #BusinessGrowth #LeadershipTips #DecisionMaking #CorporateCulture #Innovation
Before you speak to others, speak to yourself with Before you speak to others, speak to yourself with kindness. Self-talk can build—or break—your confidence. Choose to be your own champion. https://bit.ly/TLP-462?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#LeadershipDevelopment #ConfidenceCoach #SelfAdvocacy #FearToConfidence #GrowthMindset #OwnYourVoice #LeadershipQuote #PodcastWisdom
It's never too late to become the speaker—and le It's never too late to become the speaker—and leader—you want to be. Linda Ugelow didn't just overcome fear, she reclaimed her voice at 60. Start small. Stay curious. Step in. https://bit.ly/TLP-462?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#NeverTooLate #GrowthMindset #OwnYourVoice #SpeakToServe #LeadershipJourney #FearToConfidence #PodcastInspo #EmpoweredLeadership
Work-life balance? Forget it. Kristel Bauer shares Work-life balance? Forget it. Kristel Bauer shares why harmony—not balance—is the key to thriving in work and life. 🎧 Practical strategies, real talk, and leadership insights you don't want to miss.

🔗 Listen now! https://bit.ly/TLP-450?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #WorkLifeHarmony #PeakPerformance #Success #PersonalGrowth
TLP450: Finding Happiness and Harmony Wherever You TLP450: Finding Happiness and Harmony Wherever You Work with Kristel Bauer 
Our latest episode with Kristel Bauer  https://bit.ly/TLP-450?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders&utm_content=TLP450%3A%20Finding%20Happiness%20and%20Harmony%20Wherever%20You%20Work%20with%20Kristel%20Bauer 
#leadership #Leadership #WorkLifeHarmony #MindfulLeadership #EmployeeWellbeing #WorkCulture #ProductivityTips #PeakPerformance #BalanceMatters #PersonalGrowth #CareerSuccess
Join us for a powerful chat with Dr. Steven Stein—renowned psychologist & author—on how emotional intelligence shapes top leaders! 🧠💡

🔹 The "Three Cs" of Hardiness: Commitment, Challenge & Control
🔹 How EI training boosted U.S. Air Force recruiter retention
🔹 Why authenticity & empowerment are key to great leadership

🎧 Don't miss this episode! https://bit.ly/TLP-453?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#EmotionalIntelligence #Leadership #Resilience #Authenticity #EmpowerYourTeam
Most leaders focus on productivity, but what if sl Most leaders focus on productivity, but what if sleep is the missing piece? 

In this episode, Giles Watkins shares insights from his 30-year business career and personal struggle with insomnia, revealing how sleep impacts decision-making, performance, and leadership.
If you're running on empty, this is your wake-up call. 🎧 https://bit.ly/TLP-457?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #SleepMatters #HighPerformance #WorkplaceWellness #BetterSleep
TLP454: The pain train is coming. Are you ready? w TLP454: The pain train is coming. Are you ready? with Dr. Hope Zoeller 
Our latest episode with Dr. Hope Zoeller  https://bit.ly/TLP-454?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders&utm_content=TLP454%3A%20The%20pain%20train%20is%20coming.%20Are%20you%20ready%3F%20with%20Dr.%20Hope%20Zoeller 
#leadership #WorkplaceCulture #LeadershipDevelopment #SuccessionPlanning #FeedbackMatters #BusinessGrowth #CorporateLeadership #FutureOfWork #IntentionalLeadership #EmployeeEngagement
Great leaders don't just push through exhaustion—they optimize their rest to perform at their best. 🎧 

Tune in to this episode to learn how to make sleep your leadership advantage. https://bit.ly/TLP-457?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #BetterSleep #HighPerformance
Endurance is necessary, but perseverance is what d Endurance is necessary, but perseverance is what drives real leadership growth. 

Learn how to navigate challenges with Brandon Young explaining why perseverance, not just endurance, is the key to success. https://bit.ly/TLP-452?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #Resilience #GrowthMindset #Perseverance #Endurance
Too many meetings and not enough real conversation Too many meetings and not enough real conversations? 

Dr. Hope Zoeller shares why leaders should prioritize one-on-one check-ins to build strong teams. https://bit.ly/TLP-454?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #EmployeeEngagement #WorkplaceCulture #FutureOfWork #IntentionalLeadership
Coaching shouldn't be a punishment—it should be Coaching shouldn't be a punishment—it should be a tool for growth! 🚀 If leaders see coaching as a last resort before someone gets the boot, they'll never embrace it as a way to improve. 

Dr. Hope Zoeller explains why shifting this mindset is crucial for leadership success. https://bit.ly/TLP-454?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #CoachingMatters #WorkplaceCulture #GrowthMindset #LeadershipDevelopment
Are you waiting for a better boss to feel engaged Are you waiting for a better boss to feel engaged at work? The real solution is taking charge of your experience. Don't give away your power—learn how to lead yourself. 🎧 

Listen now! https://bit.ly/TLP-451?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#SelfLeadership #CareerSuccess #EmployeeEngagement #MindsetMatters
Waiting for purpose, confidence, or permission? Yo Waiting for purpose, confidence, or permission? You might be waiting forever. 💡 Self-leadership is about taking ownership of your growth, your role, and your relationships. 

Listen to this powerful conversation with Elizabeth Lotardo! https://bit.ly/TLP-451?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#SelfLeadership #MindsetMatters #LeadershipSkills #PersonalDevelopment
Top talent isn't about grades—it's about learnin Top talent isn't about grades—it's about learning agility, ambition, and adaptability. Jamie Beaton shares why the best leaders aren't just smart—they're hungry to grow and willing to take feedback. 

If you're hiring or leading a team, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen now: https://bit.ly/TLP-456?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #TopTalent #Hiring #BusinessGrowth #Entrepreneurship #ScalingUp
TLP451: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities TLP451: Find More Joy, Meaning, and Opportunities in the Job You Already Have with Elizabeth Lotardo 
Our latest episode with Elizabeth Lotardo  https://bit.ly/TLP-451?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders&utm_content=TLP451%3A%20Find%20More%20Joy%2C%20Meaning%2C%20and%20Opportunities%20in%20the%20Job%20You%20Already%20Have%20with%20Elizabeth%20Lotardo 
#leadership #Leadership #SelfLeadership #EmployeeEngagement #PersonalGrowth #MindsetMatters #WorkplaceSuccess #CareerDevelopment #LeadershipMindset
From the sharp-elbowed world of Chicago politics t From the sharp-elbowed world of Chicago politics to a deep understanding of leadership, Susan Kelsey shares valuable wisdom gained from years of experience. Reflecting on her journey, she reveals how her perspective on power and leadership has evolved. The lessons are timeless, and the insights could change the way you approach leadership today. 

Don't miss out on this thought-provoking conversation. Tune in to hear more! https://bit.ly/TLP-460?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #Wisdom #ChicagoPolitics #Power #Politics #LeadershipLessons #TimelessWisdom #Podcast #PodcastLife #Inspiration #Storytelling #PersonalGrowth #BusinessLeadership
"The best leaders don't have all the answers—the "The best leaders don't have all the answers—they create the space for their team to find them." Leadership isn't about control. It's about trust, collaboration, and growth. Are you creating that space?

🔗 Listen now! https://bit.ly/TLP-450?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#Leadership #GrowthMindset #Teamwork #Success #Empowermen
Failure isn't the end; it's a step toward growth. Failure isn't the end; it's a step toward growth. Hear Stuart Grazier's perspective on why embracing setbacks can lead to some of the greatest lessons and growth in life. 

Discover how to turn challenges into opportunities in this inspiring episode. https://bit.ly/TLP-449?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders

#GrowthMindset #LeadershipLessons
Follow on Instagram

Recent Posts

  • TLP463: Functional Art and Leadership with Sibley Bacon
  • TLP462: Overcome Your Fear of Being Seen with Linda Ugelow
  • TLP461: Looking for Unicorns: The Hiring Dilemma with Jim and Jan
  • TLP460: Lessons on Leadership from Native American Elders with Susan Kelsey
  • TLP459: Small, Consistent Actions Over Time with Adam Contos

Recent Comments

  • Anonymous on TLP459: Small, Consistent Actions Over Time with Adam Contos
  • Anonymous on TLP460: Lessons on Leadership from Native American Elders with Susan Kelsey
  • Anonymous on TLP460: Lessons on Leadership from Native American Elders with Susan Kelsey
  • Anonymous on TLP459: Small, Consistent Actions Over Time with Adam Contos
  • Anonymous on TLP445: Glue Guys: Identifying Hidden Leaders with Jim and Jan

Tags

adaptability assumptions athletics authenticity business change coaching communication corporate crucible culture Curiosity education emotional intelligence entrepreneur financial healthcare hiring history humor influence innovation interview Jim & Jan leader leadership military neuroscience Patagonia philosophy practitioner productivity relationships resilience sales science speaker sports stories team development teamwork thought leader trust values veterans

Copyright © 2025 Rafti Advisors, LLC & Self-Reliant Leadership, LLC - All Rights Reserved. | Privacy Policy