Nancy Sherman is an ethicist and professor of philosophy at Georgetown University with a focus on ancient Greek and Roman philosophy. She is an expert in ethics, the history of moral philosophy, moral psychology, military ethics, and emotions. In this episode, Nancy discusses her latest book, “Stoic Wisdom: Ancient Lessons for Modern Resilience.”
“To be resilient is to have stamina and persistence, but it’s also to be sustained and supported in your endeavors.”
Key Takeaways
[5:24] Stoicism naturally fits in the military because it’s about sucking it up and being invincible. Nancy explains why she worries about this message.
[6:40] Nancy thinks that rather than being invincible, stoicism is about understanding vulnerability and how anxiety is created by uncertainty.
[8:05] Nancy explains what moral injury means and how it weighs heavily on different kinds of people.
[9:30] Stoicism helps you think about how to cope in different situations and manage emotions and uncertain futures.
[10:30] One of the factors in the growing popularity of stoicism is the interest in secular religion. Nancy expands on this further.
[11:45] Other factors driving the fascination with stoicism are: Self-help is always a hot seller, people who are good at marketing use it as a niche, and Silicon Valley has an interest in it.
[13:25] Nancy adds in a fifth factor which is about the Roman Philosophers.
[14:35] Nancy thinks stoicism is not only about aestheticism. She explains what that means.
[15:00] Post-traumatic stress vs. moral injury. Nancy shares what’s their difference and how stoicism helps manage the latter.
[17:20] Resilience vs. grit. Nancy shares her perspective on both.
[18:30] Resilience is not self-reliance. She explains how.
[21:20] Most studies of resilience suggest that strength does not come from inner toughness but from the ability to be open to receive help.
[22:45] The Stoics were thinking of a community of humanity where we share reason, affective emotional judgment, and empathy. Nancy shares an example.
[25:30] One of the commitments of stoicism is to expand outward as a member of an effective community. Nancy explains how we can learn from this to be better leaders.
[26:50] Nancy talks about how stoics deal with implicit bias and the emotions that come with it.
[29:50] Stoicism vs. neurobiology. Nancy shares that not all stoicism is worth saving in modern times and explains why.
[32:10] Grace comes from the Greek word, Hara (Χάρις) which means charity. Nancy refers to some examples of goodwill from the stoics.
[35:00] Nancy gives another example of mutuality in stoicism that explains her view further about grace.
[36:30] Nancy also talks about self-empathy and how it’s very important to be gentle to yourself.
[39:30] Jan asks Nancy about ethics and morality and if there is a shortcut to master them.
[49:20] Listener Challenge: Embracing stoicism within being emotionless and practicing communal resilience.
Quotable Quotes
“I really worry deeply that the message being put out that you are bulletproof or invincible or you have to suck it up at all costs was dangerous.” Share on X “If you wanna go without organized religion, stoicism is a way to go.” Share on X “It’s more about how you can face the challenges and sometimes, facing the challenges involves healing.” Share on X “To be resilient is to have stamina and persistence, but it’s also to be sustained and supported in your endeavors.” Share on X “If you hit the pause button a little more, suspend judgment, and not give in or ascent to all those immediate ways we respond, we may have a better chance of engaging in discourse.” Share on XResources Mentioned
These are the books mentioned in our discussion with Nancy
Stoic Wisdom: Ancient Lessons for Modern Resilience
Bringing ancient ideas to bear on 21st century concerns ― from workers facing stress and burnout to first responders in a pandemic, from soldiers on the battlefield to citizens fighting for racial justice ― Sherman shows how Stoicism can help us fulfil the promise of our shared humanity.
More info →Afterwar: Healing the Moral Wounds of Our Soldiers
Trained in both ancient ethics and psychoanalysis, and with twenty years of experience working with the military, Sherman draws on in-depth interviews with servicemen and women to paint a richly textured and compassionate picture of the moral and psychological aftermath of America's longest wars.
More info →The Untold War: Inside the Hearts, Minds, and Souls of Our Soldiers
The Untold War draws on revealing interviews with servicemen and -women to offer keen psychological and philosophical insights into the experience of being a soldier. Bringing to light the ethical quandaries that soldiers face—torture, the thin line between fighters and civilians, and the anguish of killing even in a just war—Nancy Sherman opens our eyes to the fact that wars are fought internally as well as externally, enabling us to understand the emotional tolls that are so often overlooked.
More info →STOIC WARRIORS: THE ANCIENT PHILOSOPHY BEHIND THE MILITARY MIND
While few soldiers may have read the works of Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius, it is undoubtedly true that the ancient philosophy known as Stoicism guides the actions of many in the military. Soldiers and seamen learn early in their training "to suck it up," to endure, to put aside their feelings and to get on with the mission.
More info →Making a Necessity of Virtue: Aristotle and Kant on Virtue
This book is the first to offer a detailed analysis of Aristotelian and Kantian ethics together, in a way that remains faithful to the texts and responsive to debates in contemporary ethics. Recent moral philosophy has seen a revival of interest in the concept of virtue, and with it a reassessment of the role of virtue in the work of Aristotle and Kant. This book brings that re-assessment to a new level of sophistication. Nancy Sherman argues that Kant preserves a notion of virtue in his moral theory that bears recognisable traces of the Aristotelian and Stoic traditions, and that his complex anthropology of morals brings him into surprising alliance with Aristotle. She develops her argument through close readings of major texts by both Aristotle and Kant, illustrating points of congruence and contrast.
More info →ARISTOTLE’S ETHICS: CRITICAL ESSAYS
The ethics of Aristotle (384-322 B.C.), and virtue ethics in general, have seen a resurgence of interest over the past few decades. No longer do utilitarianism and Kantian ethics on their own dominate the moral landscape. In addition, Aristotelian themes fill out that landscape, with such issues as the importance of friendship and emotions in a good life, the role of moral perception in wise choice, the nature of happiness and its constitution, moral education and habituation, finding a stable home in contemporary moral debate. The essays in this volume represent the best of that debate. Taken together, they provide a close analysis of central arguments in Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. But they do more than that. Each shows the enduring interest of the questions Aristotle himself subtly and complexly raises in the context of his own contemporary discussions.
More info →The Fabric of Character: Aristotle’s Theory of Virtue
Most traditional accounts of Aristotle's theory of ethical education neglect its cognitive aspects. This book asserts that, in Aristotle's view, excellence of character comprises both the sentiments and practical reason. Sherman focuses particularly on four aspects of practical reason as
they relate to character: moral perception, choicemaking, collaboration, and the development of those capacities in moral education. Throughout the book, she is sensitive to contemporary moral debates, and indicates the extent to which Aristotle's account of practical reason provides an
alternative to theories of impartial reason.
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