• Home
  • Episodes
  • Books for Leaders
  • About Us
    • Our Team
    • Contact Us
  • Our Sponsors
  • Blog
  • Our Newsletter
The Leadership Podcast

The Leadership Podcast

We Study Leaders

March 22, 2017

TLP039: Humanizing Our Workplaces

http://traffic.libsyn.com/theleadershippodcast/TLP_039.mp3
Play in New Window Download

The Fix is to Embrace Your Own Power

Co-hosts Jan Rutherford and Jim Vaselopulos interview Liz Ryan – the CEO and founder of Human Workplace. According to Liz, the mistrust of employees is baked into organizations. Liz says, “It’s toxic, it’s sick, and it’s bad for profitability, for shareholders, for employee health, and the planet.” Liz advocates that leaders need to “be human,” and to make every workplace a human workplace. Trust your people. Liz considers infrastructure, control mechanisms, and performance appraisals, to be disgusting. She says It’s a bad message: “You are not a fully fledged, adult, independent, creative, vibrant, amazing person, when you’re at work.”

Listen in to learn more about humanizing our workplaces.

Key Takeaways

[1:51] Liz waited tables while in school. She dropped out, moved to Chicago, and found she was too young to wait tables in Illinois. She became an office worker, and later moved into HR, with no experience. HR workshops and seminars taught her the laws, but she felt that HR practices did not create a great working environment, or take really good care of employees and applicants.

[3:38] In her first HR job, Liz’s efforts to improve the workplace and hire great people accompanied a growth in annual sales from $1 million to $200 million. Her second HR job was with a tech startup. While she was there, the company grew from $15 million in annual sales, into a $3 billion company.

[6:21] Liz objects to the theory of HR’s and leaders’ roles being to guard against bad things that could potentially happen, rather than to hire people who are unlikely to do bad things. The mistrust of employees is baked into organizations. It’s toxic, it’s sick, and it’s bad for profitability, for shareholders, for employee health, and the planet. Liz calls this entrenched system Godzilla.

[9:54] Be human. Make every workplace a human workplace. Trust your people. Liz considers infrastructure, control mechanisms, and performance appraisals, to be disgusting. It’s a bad message: “You are not a fully fledged, adult, independent, creative, vibrant, amazing person, when you’re at work.”

[10:58] The transactional nature of employment can obscure the real rewards beyond the check. If employees are paid fairly decently, they appreciate different motivations, such as intellectual growth and creative challenges. People need to connect to their own power source, whatever that is. Work can be art. See Liz’s article on rewarding employees for free. She wrote it in response to multiple requests.

[14:30] Liz sees a paranoia, that when we let employees work from home they’re going to be watching daytime soaps and eating bonbons. In 2017, we are using an 1850s employment model of a factory with supervisors watching from a catwalk, as in a prison — it is hierarchical, bureaucratic “terror.”

[17:35] The fix is to embrace your power. You can choose another job. You can speak up, or hold your tongue, because you choose to, not out of fear. Whether you are entry-level, or in the C-suite, you have the power to create a human workplace around you. That is adulthood. You are the CEO of your own life.

[19:39] Liz says you must understand your path, and get that vision of what your life is supposed to be. For her, focusing on what you want, and where you are going, is not about sacrifice, but about choice and determination. Really listen to your gut and your heart, and follow them. Take a step every single day. Come out of your comfort zone.

[21:50] Liz tells how she found her voice. She was shot down for using calligraphy on internal mail. She got no answers for questions about the roles of men and women at work. She asked questions in her HR role that had no handbook answers. She felt so strongly about things, that she just started speaking out. The job is to be a human, not a bureaucrat. Liz did HR from the heart, organically, and in the moment.

[32:27] The story of Kitty Genovese’s murder, where 37 witnesses didn’t act, is compared to the workplace, where we have “permission” not to act, when it’s not our job. Workplace hierarchy gives us permission to mistreat people. Instead, take permission to treat people humanely. Run your career as a business. Do not tolerate things in your business that should not be tolerated. Do not abdicate control.

[37:07] Liz asserts that somebody restricting your words and acts, because they pay you, is out of bounds. If you say something, it’s personal, and it will have a personal impact on someone. If you fear to say something important to you, say it anyway. It will work out better for you, even if you lose your job.

[41:51] Liz tells a couple of frameshift stories involving young people, to illustrate a point. Generation Y employees are not impressed by authority and tradition, but want opportunities to work to their strengths. Not every employee has every strength, but the strengths they have can be great.

How to contact Liz:

Quotable Quotes

“Make a great environment where great people want to be, and then take really good care of the employees …”

“You take care of the people, it’s going to be a great place to work. That’s much more important than enacting policies.”

“I made it my mission to fix this problem — what’s broken about work — and that’s the Human Workplace movement.”

“This is one of the big problems that I see … people feel … less than comfortable using their own voice.”

“The mistrust of employees is so baked into everything we do at work … that we don’t even see it.”

“We can break down the implied and baked-in mistrust, this fear of our own co-workers.”

“Trust yourself as a leader enough, to trust people that you can trust. It’s not complicated.”

“Then you don’t need all the infrastructure … all the fear-based mechanism, all the performance appraisal nonsense.”

“The worst managers take everything down to the transactional level.”

“You don’t get power because someone gives you power. That’s fake power. Real power is power you build in yourself.”

“If I have to spout words that are not mine, you’ve got to get me an Actor’s Equity card.”

Liz Ryan’s LinkedIn Bio

I was a Fortune 500 Human Resources SVP for eons. I’ve launched HR departments for several successful startups. While I was building HR functions from the ground up, I first questioned and then rewrote the practices for HR, recruiting and leadership in organizations.

My vision for a workplace focused on people became the Human Workplace in 2012.

Human Workplace is a publishing, coaching and consulting firm whose mission is to reinvent work for people.

Our teaching and speaking, writing and artwork coalesce to turn conventional leadership, employee communication, recruitment and HR on its ear. The future of work is human, and Human Workplace employers use our curriculum, tools, coaching and private consultation to re-launch their cultures in the 21st century mode, to meet the challenges of the new-millennium workplace.

I started writing about the workplace in 1997, with a column for the Chicago Sun-Times. Now you can find my stories and artwork here on LinkedIn, on Forbes, TIME, Business Week, Kiplinger’s Finance, Yahoo!, Inc., Huffington Post, Denver Post, Harvard Business Review and other publications.

We launched Human Workplace to teach the practices that I’ve been speaking and writing about for years. Human Workplace is a global movement to humanize work, with millions of numbers around the world.

I live in Boulder, Colorado. My husband and I have five angelic bratty kids.I sing opera and draw the images you see in our columns, eBooks and lessons.

Liz Ryan

These are the books mentioned in Liz’s podcast.

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion

Buy This Book Online
Buy from Amazon
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion
Buy now!
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion

Reinvention Roadmap: Break the Rules to Get the Job You Want and Career You Deserve

Buy This Book Online
Buy from Amazon
Reinvention Roadmap: Break the Rules to Get the Job You Want and Career You Deserve
Buy now!
Reinvention Roadmap: Break the Rules to Get the Job You Want and Career You Deserve

Filed Under: Podcast Tagged With: business, culture, education, humor, interview, leadership, practitioner, productivity, speaker, teamwork

TLP038: Embers in the Darkness - Pressure Tes...
TLP040: Forget Command & Control - Leading wi...

Related Posts

  • TLP081: If You’re Talking About Trust, It Probably Doesn’t Exist
  • TLP372: One of the Best Business Books Ever with Robert Cialdini, Ph.D.
  • TLP092: Leadership Matters, But Teams Deliver
  • TLP218: Culture Can Fix Good People Behaving Badly
  • TLP204: Just Sit Still. Moving from Doer to Driver with Sara Canaday

Comments

  1. Ginger Elliott

    May 16, 2017 at 8:47 am

    Thank you so much for articulating just how toxic the Godzilla work structure is. After I got out of the military in 2007 and went into my first retail sales and management job, my team kept trying to tell me to “drop the military talk” and to change the tone I was taking with policies, etc. I would talk to people or write policies like they already made a mistake or broke a rule! That was how the military did it, and at 22 I thought my retail store would “benefit from this kind of tough structure.” It took me years to see and understand that my store leadership was asking me to drop the Godzilla structure I took from my time in the military into their store. It was exactly what Liz is talking about in minutes 5-10 in this interview. I ended up being laid off from this job as the recession kicked in and blamed the recession at the time… but after honest reflection with myself, I realized that if I had any future in leadership I had to get over my trust issues AND find a new way to communicate with people and write procedures. I DID! 😀 I’ve been working as a book and speaking agent for five years now and I’ve been enjoying and benefitting from 100% trust from my speakers and virtual teams. I hope that as American culture improves trust and humanity in the workplace, most people will work from home and their work will be measured by results and not office visibility.

  2. Eleanor Schmitt

    April 11, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    HAHA! I was one of the people that spit out my water when she said hunnybunny and then again when you mentioned that we were all exercising and choking. Hilarious! Liz Ryan is such a spitfire and I’ve been obsessed with everything she’s published on LinkedIN for a year now.

    I was lucky to find her right at a turning point in my career, during which I had an up close and personal view of the broken system at a nonprofit startup with disjointed leadership and strategy – eventually I was let go after much turmoil and trauma. I’ve found a lot of solace and confidence in my perspective despite the top-down stress I experienced, after reading Liz and listening to your interview with her.

    I’m currently beginning to write publicly about my experiences as a millennial in the workforce as well as designing a platform to unite the job seeker experience in NYC and transform their use of self-discovery throughout the process.

    Thank you so much for this inspiring conversation!

    • Jim Vaselopulos

      April 18, 2017 at 3:20 pm

      Thank you for commenting Eleanor! We’re glad that you enjoy the show and hope you enjoy many of our other guests as well. Good luck with your business endeavors!

iTunes
Spotify
Audible
SoundCloud
iHeartRADIO

Instagram Feed

westudyleaders

#leadership #leadershiptraining #leader #westudyleaders

You've been thinking about bravery all wrong. It's You've been thinking about bravery all wrong. It's not a trait you're born with. It's a skill you build. Jill Schulman is a Marine Corps veteran, keynote speaker, and bravery scientist with a master's in positive psychology from UPenn. This episode breaks down the myths holding you back, the science of the comfort trap, and the exact three-stage framework to push your team toward extraordinary performance. Discover what builds real courage. https://bit.ly/TLP-518?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleadersWatch it on YouTube - https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-518?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#bravery #leadershipdevelopment #personalgrowth #stoicism #positivepsychology #westudyleaders #theleadershippodcast #fearless #coachinglife #leadershiplessons
Most leaders blame the market, the deal, or the te Most leaders blame the market, the deal, or the tech when things fall apart.David Craig says look closer. The system is usually the real problem.David is the former CEO of Refinitiv and author of the Blue Book on business transformation and growth, having led a 25,000-person company through the financial crisis, Brexit, and Covid.This episode breaks down how to spot complexity killing your organization before it's too late, and what real conviction looks like when leading people through change.New episode is live now. https://bit.ly/TLP-525?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleadersWatch it on YouTube - https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-525?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadership #leadershippodcast #theleadershippodcast #businesstransformation #executiveleadership #organizationalculture #changemanagement #ceointerview #leadershipdevelopment #davidcraig
Instagram post 18029873594676750 Instagram post 18029873594676750
When Hurricane Helene destroyed David Gray's facil When Hurricane Helene destroyed David Gray's facilities, he didn't panic.He built a playbook.Step one: Know if your people are safe and what they need. Step two: Assess your operations for damage or compromise. Step three: Communicate with customers about impact and timeline. Step four: Keep everyone informed of progress, even if you don't have all the answers yet.David learned that people don't need you to be perfect. They need you to be clear and consistent.Listen to the full episode for his complete crisis leadership framework. https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-520?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#crisisleadership #leadership #leadershiplessons #teamculture #management #podcast #davidgray #theleadershippodcast
Most leaders say they prioritize people. David Gra Most leaders say they prioritize people. David Gray actually does it—and it's made all the difference.David Gray, CEO of Fed Up Foods, has doubled his team, scaled to become the largest functional beverage supplier to major retailers, and navigated Hurricane Helene without compromising his mission.In this episode, he shares the four-point crisis playbook he used when infrastructure failed, why connection must come before accountability, and what he learned about empathetic leadership.Listen now. https://bit.ly/TLP-520?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleadersWatch it here https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-520?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadershipdevelopment #crisisleadership #valuesdriven #empathyatwork #culturebuilding #westudyleaders #theleadershippodcast #missiondriven #davidgray #fedupfoods
Most people treat networking like a numbers game. Most people treat networking like a numbers game.Donnie Boivin treats it like a business model.The shift from collecting contacts to building other people's success is what actually opens doors.Hear how he built an entire company around it in this week's episode. https://bit.ly/TLP-521?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#networking #leadership #businessdevelopment #relationshipbuilding #salesmindset #entrepreneurship #leadershippodcast #b2bsales
Perfectionism doesn't make leaders bolder. It make Perfectionism doesn't make leaders bolder. It makes them slower.Kim learned this from a CEO who taught her the 80/20 rule — enough data to decide, then move. The last 20% almost never changes the outcome.If you're stuck waiting for certainty, this is your permission to go. https://bit.ly/TLP-522?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#boldleadership #kimsvoboda #decisionmaking #executivecoaching #leadershipmindset #intentionalleadership #leadershippodcast #decisiveleadership
Culture isn't something you mandate from the C-sui Culture isn't something you mandate from the C-suite. It's built by the people doing the work.David built Fed Up Foods on this principle, and it's why his team stayed committed through disruption, crisis, and rapid growth.When you invite people to shape how you work together, they own it. When you tell them how to work, they comply.The difference is everything.Listen to David's full framework for culture-building that lasts. https://bit.ly/TLP-520?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#culturebuilding #leadership #teamculture #leadershipdevelopment #westudyleaders #peopleirst #theleadershippodcast #valuesdriven
Picture a sideline full of parents yelling instruc Picture a sideline full of parents yelling instructions nobody can follow.Now picture your last team meeting.Patrick Emmons says it's the same problem.Bosses talk, but only 3% of the room actually understands what was said.He learned to fix it by coaching kids, not running companies.Watch the full episode to hear how Patrick builds a vernacular his team actually understands. https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-524?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadership #teamcommunication #coaching #executivecoaching #leadershipdevelopment #teambuilding #businessleadership #patrickemmons
She was running a $1B P&L. She was also miserable. She was running a $1B P&L. She was also miserable.Kim Svoboda is founder of Aspiration Catalyst, author of Bold Leadership, 20+ years leading sales orgs before walking away from it all.This week: what happens when you finally measure your life against your own values, and it doesn't add up.Listen to the full episode now. https://bit.ly/TLP-522?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleadersWatch it on YouTube - https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-522?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadershippodcast #boldleadership #executiveburnout #leadershipdevelopment #highperformingteams #employeeengagement #intentionalleadership #careertransition
Everyone hits hard seasons. Not everyone responds Everyone hits hard seasons. Not everyone responds to them the same way.Lee Benson has survived health crises, financial setbacks, and a rough start most people never recover from.His reframe: every setback either builds you or defines you. You choose which.Hear how Lee turned his hardest years into his biggest advantage. #resilience #leadership #leebenson #mindset #growth #familyleadership #executivecoaching #podcast
Jim Vaselopulos and Jan Rutherford describe four w Jim Vaselopulos and Jan Rutherford describe four ways leaders can shape a tribe: subtraction, division, addition, and multiplication.The first is leadership by subtraction. Jim describes it as a form of bullying, where a leader elevates themselves by pushing someone else down.It raises a useful question for leaders: Are you building your own position by developing others, or by diminishing them?This is the first of four leadership approaches discussed in the full conversation. Watch the full episode to hear the other three.#Leadership #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipLessons #LeadershipCulture #OrganizationalCulture #TheLeadershipPodcast
Leadership isn't a destination. The demands change Leadership isn't a destination. The demands change.Jim Vaselopulos points to a different way of thinking about leadership. The work is ongoing, and much of it comes down to balancing competing priorities, needs, and interests.That balance is not something a leader achieves once. It is something they continue to navigate.Listen to the full conversation on The Leadership Podcast. Link in the first comment.#Leadership #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipLessons #LeadershipMindset #DecisionMaking #TheLeadershipPodcast
There's a formula to building bravery. Jill Schulm There's a formula to building bravery. Jill Schulman, bravery expert and Marine Corps veteran, breaks down the three-stage framework. Stage one: master your mindset. Shift from fixed to growth. Stage two: take action before you feel ready. Confidence comes after, not before. Stage three: curate your tribe. Surround yourself with people who won't let you quit. The genius part? They reinforce each other. Each stage amplifies the next. Master the three-stage formula. https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-518?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#bravery #leadershipdevelopment #personalgrowth #framework #mindset #courage #leadership #psychology
Give first to gain everything sounds noble. Donnie Give first to gain everything sounds noble. Donnie Boivin says it's a trap. One-sided giving just trains people to take advantage of you. His fix: give, give, get, give — mutual respect over martyrdom. It changes how you should be showing up in every relationship you're building. Catch the full breakdown on this week's episode. https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-521?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#networking #leadershipmindset #businessstrategy #relationshipbuilding #salesleadership #entrepreneurmindset #leadershippodcast #businessgrowth
Most leaders spend years perfecting self-awareness Most leaders spend years perfecting self-awareness and almost no time on other-awareness.Tom Rath, #1 New York Times bestselling author of StrengthsFinder 2.0 and How Full Is Your Bucket, joins the show to talk about his newest book, What's the Point?In this episode, Tom breaks down why purpose isn't a big moment you find once, it's a question you ask five times a day.Listen now to rethink how you spend your next hour. https://bit.ly/TLP-523?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleadersWatch it on YouTube - https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-523?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadershippodcast #purposedriven #strengthsfinder #tomrath #leadershipdevelopment #workplaceculture #findingpurpose #leadershipmindset #executivecoaching #meaningfulwork
Most leaders delay hard conversations. They hope t Most leaders delay hard conversations.They hope the problem fixes itself.Patrick Emmons says that hope is the mistake.Waiting doesn't soften the issue, it just adds interest.Listen to the full episode for Patrick's approach to difficult conversations. https://bit.ly/TLP-524?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadership #difficultconversations #executivecoaching #leadershipdevelopment #directcommunication #teamculture #accountability #patrickemmons
Jim Brown spent 30 years with CEOs. Here's what he Jim Brown spent 30 years with CEOs. Here's what he keeps seeing:Leaders got promoted because they were great at doing. Now they're stuck trying to do everything.You can't scale yourself. You scale by equipping others.The shift from doer to leader isn't about working harder. It's about working differently.Listen to Jim Brown on episode 517. https://bit.ly/TLP-517?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadershipmindset #leadershipdevelopment #leadershipaccountability #organizationalhealth #executiveleadership #theleadershippodcast #ceoinsights #westudyleaders
Ever wonder why founders can't step away? Patrick Ever wonder why founders can't step away?Patrick Emmons has an answer.He built and sold three companies, and the pattern was always the same.Businesses fail to scale when there's no bench.No corporals, no sergeants, just one general running to the front.Watch the full episode to hear Patrick break down what leadership at every level actually looks like. https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-524?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#leadership #leadershipdevelopment #entrepreneurship #teambuilding #scalingbusiness #executiveleadership #businessgrowth #patrickemmons
Capitalism broke when leaders stopped believing it Capitalism broke when leaders stopped believing it requires morality.Patrick Ryan is a chartered director, KYC Net founder, and author of The Moral Market. He spent decades watching executives justify corner-cutting as "following the rules."In this episode, he shares why modern capitalism abandoned Adam Smith's moral foundation. And how the impartial spectator fixes it.Go listen to the full conversation. https://bit.ly/TLP-519?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleadersGo watch the full conversation. https://bit.ly/TLP-YT-519?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=westudyleaders#capitalism #ethics #leadership #adamsmith #moralcapitalism #businessethics #leadershippodcast #virtuouscapitalism
Follow on Instagram

Recent Posts

  • TLP533: What CEOs and Young Graduates Can Teach Each Other
  • TLP532: Sheer Will: The Unlikely Path from Cuba to the Cabinet
  • TLP531: Tribalism, Belonging, and the Leader’s Role
  • TLP530: Leadership Lessons from Building the Apple Store with Ron Johnson
  • TLP529: How Steve Jobs Learned to Lead with Geoffrey Cain

Recent Comments

  • Jim Vaselopulos on TLP519: The Leadership Idea We Missed for 250 Years
  • Jim Vaselopulos on TLP513: The Leadership Cost of Isolation with Nick Black
  • Jim Vaselopulos on TLP511: What 500 Top Leaders Taught Us — And Why It’s Not What You Think
  • Jim Vaselopulos on TLP508: Your Scars Are Your Resume
  • Jim Vaselopulos on TLP505: Why Leadership Coaching So Often Fails

Tags

adaptability assumptions athletics business change coaching communication corporate crucible culture Curiosity decision making education emotional intelligence entrepreneur Executive Coaching financial history humor innovation interview Jan Rutherford Jim & Jan Jim Vaselopulos leader leadership leadership development Leadership Podcast military neuroscience Personal Growth philosophy practitioner productivity relationships resilience speaker sports stories team development teamwork thought leader trust veterans workplace culture

Copyright © 2026 Rafti Advisors, LLC & Self-Reliant Leadership, LLC - All Rights Reserved. | Privacy Policy