Jim and Jan sit down with Dan Pink in the offices of the McChrystal Group to discuss all things leadership. Dan shares his thoughts on cognitive bias, A/B testing of leadership practices, soft-skills, and how to move from blaming personality to better understanding how design drives patterns of behavior. Due to unforeseen circumstances, General Stan McChrystal was not able to join the discussion as planned.
Key Takeaways
[3:15] Dan believes we are slowly reconceiving different notions of leadership and different notions of how organizations are run.
[8:40] We have the ability to communicate to the world and yet we are lonelier than ever.
[10:16] Dan wonders when the concept of ‘leadership’ first emerged.
[11:55] How can leaders deal with cognitive bias? As human beings, we are riddled with flaws and by simply being aware of that, it can help you through the decision making process as you begin to ask yourself a series of questions.
[16:00] A/B testing is critical in any leadership role, but there are some leaders who are too afraid to test out ‘B’ and have it fail.
[20:45] With so many distractions out there, Dan understands how difficult it is to have our minds be focused on the present. This is why he has made a conscious effort to delete social media apps and other distractions off of his computer.
[23:25] Is your organization suffering from bad behaviors or simply bad design? In order for you to be a good leader as well as a good designer, be aware of your surroundings. Did an interaction or customer experience go well for you? Ask yourself why and take note so that you can implement it into your organization.
[31:25] As we get older, our processing power decreases. If you can’t speed up the processing power of an individual, can you do it as an organization? Dan isn’t sure he has the correct answer to this yet.
[35:45] Our education system is designed for the convenience of the system and it is not tailored to the education of the people. Schools will say their goal is to teach people how to learn, but the system, unfortunately, doesn’t allow for that.
[41:45] How much has genuine leadership changed over the years? Dan thinks at the structural level, it’s changed very little.
[44:00] Effective leaders don’t rule with an iron fist. In fact, it’s the soft skills that often go unnoticed. For example, they have humility, curiosity, and integrity.
[47:00] Dan believes that the future of leadership will involve teaching others how to think.
Where to follow Dan Pink
- Twitter: @DanielPink
- Facebook: @DanielHPink
- Website: DanPink.com
Quotable Quotes
“Am I looking for things that only confirm my existing beliefs and am I discarding things that challenge my existing beliefs?” Share on X “If you’re a leader who says I don’t want to test out ‘B’ because it’s a failure, you don’t understand experiments.” Share on X “Instead of relying on my willpower and fortitude, neither of which is deep, I change the architecture. I think that's the solution for leaders.” Share on X “Collective intelligence at an organizational level is, at some level, a knowledge management problem.” Share on X “We have all the content in the world to develop leaders. What’s missing is context.” Share on X “These tests that schools provide are easily hackable and so these kids got good at hacking tests, but the real world is not a hackable exercise.” Share on XThese are the books mentioned in Dan’s podcasts.
When: The Scientific Secrets of Perfect Timing
Everyone knows that timing is everything. But we don't know much about timing itself. Our lives are a never-ending stream of "when" decisions: when to start a business, schedule a class, get serious about a person. Yet we make those decisions based on intuition and guesswork.
More info →Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us
Most people believe that the best way to motivate is with rewards like money—the carrot-and-stick approach. That's a mistake, says Daniel H. Pink (author of To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Motivating Others). In this provocative and persuasive new book, he asserts that the secret to high performance and satisfaction-at work, at school, and at home—is the deeply human need to direct our own lives, to learn and create new things, and to do better by ourselves and our world.
Drawing on four decades of scientific research on human motivation, Pink exposes the mismatch between what science knows and what business does—and how that affects every aspect of life. He examines the three elements of true motivation—autonomy, mastery, and purpose-and offers smart and surprising techniques for putting these into action in a unique book that will change how we think and transform how we live.
More info →To Sell Is Human: The Surprising Truth About Moving Others
From the bestselling author of Drive and A Whole New Mind comes a surprising--and surprisingly useful--new book that explores the power of selling in our lives.
More info →A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule the Future
The future belongs to a different kind of person with a different kind of mind: artists, inventors, storytellers-creative and holistic "right-brain" thinkers whose abilities mark the fault line between who gets ahead and who doesn't.
More info →Free Agent Nation: The Future of Working for Yourself, by Daniel H. Pink
Widely acclaimed for its engaging style and provocative perspective, this book has helped thousands transform their working lives. Now including a 30-page resource guide that explains the basics of working for oneself.
More info →Leaders: Myth and Reality
Retired four-star general Stan McChrystal has studied leadership his whole adult life, from his first day at West Point to his most recent work with the corporate clients of the McChrystal Group. In this follow-up to his bestsellers My Share of the Task and Team of Teams, McChrystal explores what leadership really means, debunking the many myths that have surrounded the concept. He focuses on thirteen great leaders, showing that the lessons we commonly draw from their lives are seldom the correct ones.
More info →Team of Teams
Great book on teamwork and organizational structure. The importance of culture and the Commander's intent is crucial.
More info →My Share of the Task: A Memoir
In this illuminating New York Times bestseller, McChrystal frankly explores the major episodes and controversies of his career.
More info →Authentic Leadership
Mentioned by Jan during our interview of Tom Morris as our discussion turned to authenticity and knowing why you make the decisions you make in life.
More info →Courage: The Backbone of Leadership
In Courage, Gus Lee captures the essential component of leadership in measurable behaviors. Using actual stories from Whirlpool, Kaiser Permanente, IntegWare, WorldCom and other organizations, Lee shows how highly successful executives face and overcome their fears to develop moral intelligence.
More info →Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are
Everybody Lies offers fascinating, surprising, and sometimes laugh-out-loud insights into everything from economics to ethics to sports to race to sex, gender and more, all drawn from the world of big data
More info →Successful Aging: A Neuroscientist Explores the Power and Potential of Our Lives
SUCCESSFUL AGING delivers powerful insights:
• Debunking the myth that memory always declines with age
• Confirming that "health span"—not "life span"—is what matters
• Proving that sixty-plus years is a unique and newly recognized developmental stage
• Recommending that people look forward to joy, as reminiscing doesn't promote health
How Will You Measure Your Life?
How Will You Measure Your Life is with a book of lucid observations and penetrating insights designed to help any reader—student or teacher, mid-career professional or retiree, parent or child—forge their own paths to fulfillment.
More info →The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth
This book explores this culture of psychological safety, and provides a blueprint for bringing it to life. The road is sometimes bumpy, but succinct and informative scenario-based explanations provide a clear path forward to constant learning and healthy innovation.
More info →Good Boss, Bad Boss: How to Be the Best… and Learn from the Worst
These heart-breaking, inspiring, and sometimes funny stories taught Sutton that most bosses - and their followers - wanted a lot more than just a jerk-free workplace. They aspired to become (or work for) an all-around great boss, somebody with the skill and grit to inspire superior work, commitment, and dignity among their charges.
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