Mark Crowley’s newest book is The Power of Employee Well-Being: Move Beyond Engagement to Build Flourishing Teams.
For more than a decade, organizations have chased employee engagement – through surveys, gamification, perks, and wellness apps – yet the results haven’t improved. Gallup now reports engagement at a ten-year low. Mark was one of the early voices questioning the engagement movement, and in this conversation he explains why the model itself is flawed.
We talk about what leaders have been measuring incorrectly, what employee well-being actually means, and why the strongest predictor of team performance isn’t compensation, perks, or pressure to produce. It’s belonging.
If you’re seeing burnout, quiet disengagement, or people simply going through the motions, this conversation offers a different lens on leadership—and practical insights you can start applying immediately.
Find episode 504 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts!
Watch this Episode on YouTube | Mark Crowley on Why Your Team Is Still Disengaged
Key Takeaways
[03:04] Mark explains why employee engagement flatlined.
[08:09] Mark draws the line: personal well-being is on you, but how your people perform at work is almost entirely on the leader.
[12:08] Mark defines employee well-being, and why wellness apps and free yoga are just band-aids.
[15:26] Mark reveals the number one driver of well-being: belonging.
[18:36] Mark on hybrid work: packed Zoom calendars are theater. Judge people on outcomes, not optics.
[24:22] Mark pushes back on the work ethic debate, and calls out companies playing both sides of the hybrid fence.
[32:59] Mark shares the story of his top performer who turned down bigger offers — for one reason her boss never expected.
[38:16] Mark’s fix for micromanagement: weekly individual check-ins that solve problems before they spiral.
[41:30] Mark’s closing insight: 95% of human behavior is driven by emotion. Stop asking what people think — ask how they feel.
[43:13] And remember…“Well-being is attained little by little, and nevertheless is no little thing itself.” – Citium Zeno
The Leadership Podcast is sponsored by W.S. Darley & Company.
Founded in 1908, Darley remains a family owned and operated business, providing the highest quality equipment solutions to our country’s warfighters and firefighters.
Learn more at darley.com and darleydefense.com
Quotable Quotes
"Once people negotiate their compensation, pay stops being a day-to-day motivator. You've got to figure out the other four drivers." Share on X "Wellness is not well-being. A free yoga class is a band-aid." Share on X "The number one driver of well-being is belonging — and most leaders never thought that was their job." Share on X "If people are feeling supported, trusted, growing, and appreciated — they will naturally reciprocate and produce at levels most leaders have never seen." Share on X "We've been misaligned to human nature. That's why engagement never worked." Share on X "Nobody can thrive without connection. The highest performing teams are the ones where everybody has each other's back." Share on X "The tighter people are, the more people feel like they can be who they are — that's the greatest driver of well-being." Share on X "Ask people how they feel — not what they think. That's where the real answer is." Share on X "Up to 95% of human behavior is driven by feelings and emotions. That's not soft, that's science." Share on X "People pour their heart into surveys and nothing ever gets done." Share on X "HR should be the advocates for people — not the C-suite's executioner." Share on X
This is the book mentioned in this series
Resources Mentioned
- The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com
- Sponsored by | www.darley.com
- Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com
- Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com
- Mark Crowley Website | markccrowley.com
- Mark Crowley Podcast | markccrowley.com/podcasts
- Mark Crowley X | @MarkCCrowley
- Lead From The Heart Facebook Page | facebook.com/LeadFromTheHeart
- Mark Crowley LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/markccrowley
HR – lapdog for C-Suite when they lack courage 😉
Hard human convos w/o micro-managing = POW tactics. Love that.
Well-being is attained little by little and is no little thing itself. Yes, people from war zones get that even after years of therapy.
Have you explored yet how over-familiarity (in smaller professional communities and countries) can create a different set of problems/dynamics?
I enjoyed the contrarian nature of this podcast. Refreshing!
Excellent!